Date: 28.10.2025 (2025-10-28)
Rainer Schwarz (28.10.2025) • https://www.linkedin.com/in/rainerschwarz/ • My message: • Ich (...) arbeite inzwischen an einem neuen Projekt rund um die Automatisierung von Controlling-, Buchhaltungs- und Einkaufsprozessen durch KI - wir integrieren uns direkt in bestehende Systeme, ohne neue Software einzuführen. • CFO Aleph Alpha and one more • Pitch the workflow + pre-defined modules slide
Questions:
• Pitch first. General feedback to pitch?
• Which companies would he target?
• Which tasks to focus on?
• Biggest objections / challenges he expects?
• Partnership with tax advisors?
• Notes:
• Angelsächsischer Raum saturated
• Rellit: end to end
• GER: Candis, Moss, etc. -> fragmented
• Some tools come from FP&A side
• FRA: there is an interesting accounting tool -> they raised a lot -> they went via tax advisors (60 to 70 Mio they want to go to GER) -> they attack Datev -> it will take them 4 years (Pennylane)
• https://www.pennylane.com/fr
• He thinks they won't succeed
• Circular for traveling costs -> they go to Accounts Payable -> want to attack Candis -> they use 3rd party CC; Moss has their own CC
• Nobody touches Datev
• Elo -> startup -> takes Datev data and runs analytics (drop down lists etc.)
• -> something for small companies - not for the large
• Datev data is not clean (deutsche Kontenrahmen)
• Oracle Netsuite (100 to 200k per year)
• Dynamics, Workday, SAP etc.
• Grey area that he sees is revenue - there is no tool that manages revenue value chain
• Hubspot
• Billing: Chargebee (recurring)
• Revenue
• AP is done: Moss, Cleo, Candis etc. - none is perfect but they are good
• Datev is only receiver of the data
• Moss does not get to full ERP because tax advisor wants to work with Datev -> they take export and want
• Datev is a Genossenschaft and Genossenschafter are the tax advisor
• Circular is a travel expense tool -> work closely with Datev -> try to motivate tax advisors to suggest the tool -> slow progress
• Tax advisor runs completely on Datev - in FRA it is a bit different because Sage is common
• Some tax advisors use Edison - worse with data output
• Rillet expansion:
• Try to not replace Datev -> build a tool that does everything but build an export function that is compatible with Datev
• Candis does that
• Rillet could offer a super lean ERP -> only difficulty to mirror tax advisor processes -> there are Regularien in GER,FRA, ITA etc. because there is legal requirements -> software has to fulfill tax law
• UK: Quickbooks and Xero is good
• Feedback:
• Everything makes sense
• Nextmeta
• Zendesk & Co. Customer Support & Onboarding -> they went bankrupt - benchmark
• Workflow is standardised -> customer has to follow it
• A lot of customisation
• Who is the ICP?
• Companies have a lot of Insellösungen -> what is the value we create
• He would do it agentic
• How to create a central dashboard
• Finance is far behind with adoption of AI - very fragmented systems, a lot of human intervention
• Agents:
• Check for fraud; check for abundant credit cards
• Smart Approval Process:
• Example:
• Customer thinks Moss is the best -> they checked it -> Candis is better -> shows how preference are diverse
• Company wanted to work on AI
• He told them to list processes -> it is very service heavy
• He brought Zapier analogy
• For him it was not clear that agents execute in accounting tool -> make it clearer
• Overview Dashboard
• Workflow space is still quite open
• Check out Pathway Solutions -> connector between chargefee and Datev
• Candis, Moss do not manage to get bank payments, additional to CC
• Reason: unclear
• Moss: very low margins
• Pricing: 200 invoices, travel, a few CC -> 300 to 400 EUR pro month (max 600 month)
• MBat -> they want to go to Germany -> banking interface
• Circular: 10 Mio ARR -> how much more is possible? There is not much more to capture
• There are cases with 2.5 to 5 Mio ARR but very profitable -> everyone is in there (Moss)
• Tax advisor in GER:
• Pennylane website is still in French language
• https://www.pennylane.com/fr
• Steuerberater
• Buchhaltung, tax, Payroll -> they do it in Datev
• Very high Krankenstand, high fluctuation, no new talents
• Tobias Kraatz: yearly closing etc.
• 20 to 50% of Belege are missing every month
• All tools have reminders but people are not doing it
• Accruals are a problem
• There would be such a high effort required on company side to get clean monthly closing
• 90% are really bad - only the partner is good -> thus Moss & Candis are used to tell people what they book
• He would not care if there are agents or humans
• Problem is they are dependent what they get from a company -> data is missing
• USA there is no Datev -> integration is easier